432Hz/440Hz

[Ashmanakash 3]

Hi everybody !

I have here some questions about that 432Hz theory.
Do you use it on a regular basis ? Do you think it has his place on psychedelic music ?

I read that the 440Hz was more an intellectual comprehension of music for the brain, and 432 more emotional. It don't know if it is even true, 'cause the sources are not very scientific, many new age style.

While beeing in the right state of mind to listen that kind of music, both intellectual and emotional play their role. That's why I was asking myself, if 432Hz could be a good idea on pads and Fx's, keeping the 440Hz for the arps and melodies... This way, as I understand this kind of music, the enhancement of the experience could be more appreciated.

Thanks for reading and giving opinions on that

Peace 

[yiannis 201]

If the hypothesis about frequencies is right, your theory makes sense Ashmanakash, although I would switch arps and pads around as the latter can convey emotion for me and are actually what takes me places in various genres of music. They're sort of my flying carpet.

 

I have a question of a similar nature: can the difference be heard in non-studio speakers? I mean sure the difference between lossy and lossless can be heard on most pairs of speakers more or less, but is anything beyond that perceptible on home speakers and/or average headphones? 

 

 

[pangani 11]

This is the best analysis of the 440/432 Hz discussion I red so far...

 

 

1) 432Hz sounds more relaxed/seated/centered/peaceful etc. than 440Hz

Play any higher tone followed by a slightly lower one and you can convince yourself and others that the second is more relaxed and resolved, and less ‘harsh’. This is simply a trick of associating negative connotations to higher pitches and positive ones to lower pitches. A higher pitch could be described as harsh, cerebral, brash, brittle and sterile (as opposed to soft, spiritual, peaceful, relaxed and warm) or strong, thoughtful, brave, optimistic and bright (as opposed to weak, thoughtless, cowardly, pessimistic and dull). Our expectations do the rest. If you value anecdotes, then consider this: I’ve discussed the 440Hz/432Hz issue and played the two tones to an audience, almost all agree that the latter sounds more ‘relaxed’ and ‘peaceful’.  However it’s then revealed that what was actually heard was 432Hz followed by a 424.15Hz tone (a drop in pitch proportional to 440Hz-432Hz).

 

http://www.miltonline.com/2014/01/07/hertz-so-good/

[Mønsterhed 41]

I read a really nice post on this subject the other day, however now I cant seem to find it. Basically the whole "432 is more alligned with the universe" is absolute bollocks. It's about arbitrary frequencies of tuning. As long as you follow the tuning, i.e. A3 is 440, A4 is 880 and so forth, it doesnt matter which frequency you choose as long as you're consistent. I'll see if I can dig it up somewhere.

[unknown music 14]

On its own, the number appears to be meaningless. However, upon closer examination, the 432 hz tuning actually does seem to be more " in tune with the universe " if used along with the Pythagorean system of tuning, which defines a set of frequency ratios related to a non-linear progression of square-cubic numbers.. According to my research, these ratios are naturally very in tune with the way the human ear perceives sound and music and also is related to astronomical cycles..

 

In fact, as far as I can tell, it turns out that the 440 hz reference frequency has no mathematical basis and is therefore the completely arbitrary number here

 

Instead of philosophically discussing it though, I think the best thing to do is to listen to some music on youtube or at home and decide for yourself

[Mønsterhed 41]

I can only advise against comparing youtube videos. Many of them are just 440 hz tracks pitched down to make 440 into 432, thus scewing the the whole musical spectrum since it's logarithmic, not linear. You need to compare two tracks that are recorded at 440 and 432, and make god damn sure that they are.

[pangani 11]

I can definitly agree with Monsterhed! Most of the tracks are just pitched down and the hole Idea of a harmonic structure based on 432 Hz is gone...

 

If you want to try it out by yourself and you work with ableton... I made a max4live patch a while ago...

 

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/2024/standard-concert-pitch-changer

 

...I never made really music with it, since its just useable for mono voices - not with chords... But see for yourself.

[snowdrop 73]

While beeing in the right state of mind to listen that kind of music, both intellectual and emotional play their role. That's why I was asking myself, if 432Hz could be a good idea on pads and Fx's, keeping the 440Hz for the arps and melodies... This way, as I understand this kind of music, the enhancement of the experience could be more appreciated.

 

If you have pads in 432Hz and arps in 440Hz they'll be hideously out of tune with each other...

 

Kalya Scintilla wrote a post about the importance of tuning to 432Hz a while back but it seems to have been removed. I tried it myself for a while and to be honest I stopped because all the tunings seemed to be off with each other, but obviously it can be done right if you're dedicated to implementing it. The jury's still out though. If you think it's worth your while to perfect the art of retuning everything then it probably is.

 

I'd agree with Crucial Flow Research that you should seek out music in 432Hz and compare for yourself (and also with Monsterhed and pangani that you need to make sure it's not just been repitched - listen to artists who you know use 432 tuning).

 

And if you want an equal tempered scale frequency table, here is a link to one I made ages ago when I couldn't find one anywhere on the web: https://www.facebook.com/notes/maia-snowdrop/a432hz-equal-tempered-scale-frequencies/278721692283800?pnref=lhc

[Gagarin Project 400]

this is the problem with facebook, many interesting conversation happens, but then they dissapear .... i also remember seeing that post

[unknown music 14]

this is the problem with facebook, many interesting conversation happens, but then they dissapear .... i also remember seeing that post

 

I believe that could be my post you saw, I deleted it... but I summed up my general findings in my post here

[Ashmanakash 3]

Thanks for all the replies 

 

I'm trying using it on ableton, we will see the final result when my last tune will be finished.

 

The truth is my earing is not precise enough to really feel the difference between both tunings    

 

Thanks for the equal tempered scale frequency table too

[snowdrop 73]

Thanks for all the replies 

 

I'm trying using it on ableton, we will see the final result when my last tune will be finished.

 

The truth is my earing is not precise enough to really feel the difference between both tunings    

 

Thanks for the equal tempered scale frequency table too

 

No probs, happy producing!

[Gagarin Project 400]

a guide by Merkaba / Kalya Scintilla

 

http://forum.psybient.org/index.php/topic/32-links-to-tutorials-and-other-useful-resources/?do=findComment&comment=1548

[cobearnicus 1]

i think the idea of different tuning systems having different effects on human consciousness is an interesting topic, but the a=432hz idea is off base as a way to pursue that goal.

first let’s discuss what tuning actually means. every musical note contains not one, but a set of frequencies in a precisely defined mathematical relationship to one another - this is called the harmonic series. the differences in timbre between a different instruments playing the same note are due to the number and intensity of the different overtones.

if the lowest frequency in the series (called the fundamental - this is what we recognize as the pitch of the note) is X hertz, then the overtones frequencies are 2X, 3X, 4X, etc. separated out, these frequencies form the basis of the harmonic intervals that make up music.

2x or double the frequency = an octave above the fundamental
3x = an octave + 5th
4x = 2 octaves
5x = 2 oct + major 3rd
6x = 2oct + 5th
7x = 2oct + b7
8x = 3oct
9x = 3oct + major second

it goes on and on from there.

notice that each successive overtone forms a smaller and smaller interval from the overtone before it.

notice how overtones that are powers of 2 (1,2,4,8,…) are octaves of the fundamental.

notice how overtones that are prime numbers add new harmonic flavors to the spectrum. 2 adds the octave. 3 adds the fifth. 4 isn’t prime, thus no new harmony, just another octave. 5 is prime however, and adds the major 3rd. now we have formed a major triad just from the overtones. the next prime overtone, 7 adds a very flat 7th.

harmonic relationships can be described as frequency ratios: 2/1 is an octave. 3/2 is a perfect fifth. 5/4 is a major third. the system where notes are  tuned to pure mathematical ratios based on the harmonic series is called just intonation.

this article breaks it down very well for those who want to dive deeper:

http://www.kylegann.com/tuning.html

all of this however is NOT how modern music is tuned. the reason is that if you tuned a piano this way, the key of C major (assuming c is the fundamental of the system) would sound wonderfully resonant, but the further away you modulate harmonically, the more and more out of tune the music would sound. various systems were implemented over the course of european music history, until finally, they settled on our current system - equal temperament. in this system, every key’s tuning is compromised by an equal amount - essentially it’s a trade off that facilitated the new harmonic modulations composers were exploring at the expense of the pure resonance of perfectly tuned intervals.

so we come now to my point - simply moving an “imperfect†tuning system down a few hz does nothing to improve the quality of its resonance. we might subjectively like it better, but i don’t think objectively it makes any difference. and if the premise is that it is somehow more "in tune with the universe" i think it would be better to start by tuning the notes to the other notes in the music first. this must have a greater effect than tuning them to the speed of light, the orbits of the planets, or something not obviously musical.

so if we want a more resonant harmonic effect, i would suggest exploring just intonation instead of a=432hz. there is a link above that describes how to achieve this with synthesizers.

indian classical music is tuned in just intonation. i think this is a big part of what makes that music so special. there really is a difference in the aesthetic quality of intervals that are tuned perfectly as opposed to the compromised, tempered intervals in modern western music.

this page gives a list of the differences in cents, which can be useful if you are creating a custom tuning file:

http://www.kylegann.com/Octave.html

and this page will help you create a .tun file:

http://www.u-he.com/scripting/Arprestrictor.php

be careful with this one, though, i’ve noticed that i had to half the number of cents correction to get the tunings correct. but i’ve used these two pages to create just tunings for the omnisphere.

also, check out this video, where leonard bernstein describes the harmonic series better than i ever could (amongst other things):

i hope you guys find this helpful.

[Fils-des-etoiles 11]

(((EDIT : This following is a mistake ))

I started my last songs in 432hz, I just turn down the pitch of 32c for the VST that have a pitch setting from -1 to +1 (eg : Sylenth)

For the ones that go from -100% to +100%, I put -1% (eg : Operator)

 

NEVER DO WHAT I WAS DOING, INTERVAL IS NOT ALL 32c OR 1%. FOLLOW THIS LINK

 

http://subaqueousmusic.com/sof/

[Iacchus 25]

Seems like 'woo' to me, what Ive read on the subject has smatterings of science but its all mixed in with talk of chakras and stuff.   last album I heard that was 432hz tuned was significantly more dull than the producers last release, should have spent all that time writing decent music instead of messing around with tunings

[neil (spatialize) 77]

if it is true then we need to start a campaign to make the universe resonante at a different frequency to save us the hassle of detuning all our sounds.

[Fils-des-etoiles 11]

if it is true then we need to start a campaign to make the universe resonante at a different frequency to save us the hassle of detuning all our sounds.

Should we ask reptilians about this ? They must be able to do this !

 

I tried using 432 tuning following subaqueous technique, it takes 3 more time my CPU Good thing is I try to make something good with 3 times less instruments and automations

[Iacchus 25]

If it is true I'm sure it will catch on and just become the standard or a setting one day

[Flying Lotus 23]

one more point of view, a skeptical one

http://www.medson.net/A432hz-myth.html

[Geoglyph 12]

Cobearnicus has nailed it - the question of what the note 'A' is tuned to is surely irrelevant (unless, perhaps, your piece is a drone on A...)

What's interesting is how the notes are tuned to each other in the scale. Equal temperament has some rather audible problems with it. Since ambient music very rarely modulates from key to key, it seems sensible that this music should explore other tuning systems wherein intervals are more mathematically 'pure'.

 

(This wouldn't make sense in jazz, though, because in jazz you modulate from key to key a lot, very quickly. Same in classical music. This generally sounds bad in tuning systems other than equal temperament.)

[Gagarin Project 400]

i have still so much to learn about this, my knowledge is very basic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_tuning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_tuning

[Matt Freak Flag 33]

 

(This wouldn't make sense in jazz, though, because in jazz you modulate from key to key a lot, very quickly. Same in classical music. This generally sounds bad in tuning systems other than equal temperament.)

 

Or even in most music with (western) acoustic instrumentation.  For example, my guitar is pretty much stuck in equal temperament because that's how instruments are fretted.

 

Now gamelan music, on the other hand... tuning for gamelan ensembles is a whole rabbit hole of weird.  

 

Edit: alright, I just learned this: some of that eerie intense music from Akira was gamelan music in pelog tuning. See here.

[Spinnet (One Arc Degree) 89]

I'm in line with this guy on this topic:

 

https://ask.audio/articles/music-theory-432-hz-tuning-separating-fact-from-fiction

[Matt Freak Flag 33]

I'm in line with this guy on this topic:

 

https://ask.audio/articles/music-theory-432-hz-tuning-separating-fact-from-fiction

 

Me too.  I'm saving this link, it's a pretty good breakdown. 

 

I'm glad to see most people here are pretty skeptical and rational about this sort of thing.

 

The corresponding thread on Isratrance was pretty messy in comparison.